Comments on: Taiwan needs justice not persecution http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/2009/06/taiwan-needs-justice-not-persecution/ commentary on all things Taiwanese -- Taipei, Taiwan Thu, 11 Mar 2010 16:14:50 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: David Reid http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/2009/06/taiwan-needs-justice-not-persecution/comment-page-1/#comment-85059 David Reid Sun, 28 Jun 2009 00:49:19 +0000 http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/?p=4395#comment-85059 Cheng, your comment provides me with a good chance to post a link to the <a href="http://dpptaiwan.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/joint-statement-calling-for-the-reform-of-the-detention-system-implementation-of-human-rights-in-the-administration-of-justice-and-an-immediate-end-to-the-detention-of-former-president-chen-shui-bian/" rel="nofollow">joint statement of lawyers, scholars and activists</a> calling for reform of the judicial system and the immediate release of Chen Shui-bian. I will just take a brief quote from it that I believe sums up the issue. <blockquote>However, the case of former President Chen has clearly illustrated that the legal rights of our former head of state have not been protected. This being so, how we can ever ensure that the rights of ordinary citizens will not be violated?</blockquote> The trial of a former President in any country is of major significance. No matter what your personal opinion of Chen Shui-bian might be, his trial matters. Chen's trial has exposed several failings of the judicial system. Taiwan needs a strong independent judiciary that adheres to the highest standards of human rights. At the moment it appears more like a kangaroo court. Cheng, your comment provides me with a good chance to post a link to the joint statement of lawyers, scholars and activists calling for reform of the judicial system and the immediate release of Chen Shui-bian. I will just take a brief quote from it that I believe sums up the issue.

However, the case of former President Chen has clearly illustrated that the legal rights of our former head of state have not been protected. This being so, how we can ever ensure that the rights of ordinary citizens will not be violated?

The trial of a former President in any country is of major significance. No matter what your personal opinion of Chen Shui-bian might be, his trial matters. Chen’s trial has exposed several failings of the judicial system. Taiwan needs a strong independent judiciary that adheres to the highest standards of human rights. At the moment it appears more like a kangaroo court.

]]> By: Cheng http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/2009/06/taiwan-needs-justice-not-persecution/comment-page-1/#comment-85058 Cheng Sat, 27 Jun 2009 22:40:20 +0000 http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/?p=4395#comment-85058 I agree that fact that Taiwan needs justice and not persecution but, how does this have anything to do with Mr. Chen? There are so many big issues in Taiwan that have been there for years before Mr. Chen was even the president of Taiwan and need to be addressed. The sad part of it is that if you put Mr. Chen into the mixes of any issues that you want to talk about, the issues will be dead before they are brought up. My suggestion to you is to talk about any issues that you think will improve Taiwan's quality of life but please, leave Mr. Chen out of it! After all, Mr. Chen is no longer an issue and Taiwan has to move on! I agree that fact that Taiwan needs justice and not persecution but, how does this have anything to do with Mr. Chen? There are so many big issues in Taiwan that have been there for years before Mr. Chen was even the president of Taiwan and need to be addressed. The sad part of it is that if you put Mr. Chen into the mixes of any issues that you want to talk about, the issues will be dead before they are brought up. My suggestion to you is to talk about any issues that you think will improve Taiwan’s quality of life but please, leave Mr. Chen out of it! After all, Mr. Chen is no longer an issue and Taiwan has to move on!

]]> By: David Reid http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/2009/06/taiwan-needs-justice-not-persecution/comment-page-1/#comment-85008 David Reid Mon, 08 Jun 2009 05:47:25 +0000 http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/?p=4395#comment-85008 Passing By, Peter and Taiwan Echo, thanks for your comments. Some good insights there. This article has now been translated into Chinese and Paul Katz's article has too. I have updated the post with the links. Passing By, Peter and Taiwan Echo, thanks for your comments. Some good insights there.

This article has now been translated into Chinese and Paul Katz’s article has too. I have updated the post with the links.

]]> By: Taiwan Echo http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/2009/06/taiwan-needs-justice-not-persecution/comment-page-1/#comment-85007 Taiwan Echo Mon, 08 Jun 2009 00:03:55 +0000 http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/?p=4395#comment-85007 IMO, one of the key reasons KMT can use CSB as a tool is that Taiwanese treat CSB as a God-like figure. God is supposed to be flawless, so once Taiwanese find out that CSB is not flawless, the absolute faith backfires. Unfortunately DPP bigshots fail to remind Taiwanese that even Chen is corrupt it's not the end of the world. The political persecution that Taiwanese kept a blind eye to is far more serious than Chen's case itself. Instead DPP falls right into the trap, ignoring the political persecution part during the entire 6 month of Chen's detention -- until one week before DPP's 517 street demonstration. During that week, all DPP heavyweights, Tsai In-wen, Su Chen-chan, Frank Hsieh, ... suddenly "discovered" that CSB's detention is in violation of human right, so they went to visit Chen, claiming that they went there to protest Ma government's political persecution, even though they avoid CSB like plague in the past half year. DPP's show performance simply reveals that the CSB saga is not played out single-handedly by KMT. It also shows how popular CSB still is, otherwise DPP bigheads wouldn't bother to visit him right before the 517. IMO, one of the key reasons KMT can use CSB as a tool is that Taiwanese treat CSB as a God-like figure. God is supposed to be flawless, so once Taiwanese find out that CSB is not flawless, the absolute faith backfires.

Unfortunately DPP bigshots fail to remind Taiwanese that even Chen is corrupt it’s not the end of the world. The political persecution that Taiwanese kept a blind eye to is far more serious than Chen’s case itself.

Instead DPP falls right into the trap, ignoring the political persecution part during the entire 6 month of Chen’s detention — until one week before DPP’s 517 street demonstration. During that week, all DPP heavyweights, Tsai In-wen, Su Chen-chan, Frank Hsieh, … suddenly “discovered” that CSB’s detention is in violation of human right, so they went to visit Chen, claiming that they went there to protest Ma government’s political persecution, even though they avoid CSB like plague in the past half year.

DPP’s show performance simply reveals that the CSB saga is not played out single-handedly by KMT. It also shows how popular CSB still is, otherwise DPP bigheads wouldn’t bother to visit him right before the 517.

]]> By: Peter http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/2009/06/taiwan-needs-justice-not-persecution/comment-page-1/#comment-85006 Peter Sun, 07 Jun 2009 04:17:40 +0000 http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/?p=4395#comment-85006 Watching the whole thing unfold has been pretty depressing. The responses I've had with locals almost always focus on the bad things he's done as justification. People rarely see past that. KMT supporters see it as justified and DPP supporters are embarrassed. In the meantime the focus remains on him which just diverts attention from the bigger issue. Watching the whole thing unfold has been pretty depressing. The responses I’ve had with locals almost always focus on the bad things he’s done as justification. People rarely see past that. KMT supporters see it as justified and DPP supporters are embarrassed. In the meantime the focus remains on him which just diverts attention from the bigger issue.

]]> By: Passing By http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/2009/06/taiwan-needs-justice-not-persecution/comment-page-1/#comment-85004 Passing By Sat, 06 Jun 2009 03:14:58 +0000 http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/?p=4395#comment-85004 Remember the Frank Hsieh MRT charges? Not guilty. The charges about Southern Taiwan Science Park and the High Speed Rail anti-vibration system? Not guilty. Chen Shui-bian isn't even really seriously up for the charges everyone "knew" were true about him two years ago. It's all about the political donations that he admitted to AFTER he left the presidency. But the whole DPP is labeled as a corrupt party while the KMT keeps converting its property into cash and outspending the DPP on elections 5-1 to 10-1 (it's hard to know exactly when you don't have to report party assets and party subsidies). KMT gangsters and family conglomerate representatives still run free in the Legislative Yuan, working on the cover of attacks on CSB. The main negotiator with China's son holds vast business interests in China. Sigh... Remember the Frank Hsieh MRT charges? Not guilty.

The charges about Southern Taiwan Science Park and the High Speed Rail anti-vibration system? Not guilty.

Chen Shui-bian isn’t even really seriously up for the charges everyone “knew” were true about him two years ago. It’s all about the political donations that he admitted to AFTER he left the presidency.

But the whole DPP is labeled as a corrupt party while the KMT keeps converting its property into cash and outspending the DPP on elections 5-1 to 10-1 (it’s hard to know exactly when you don’t have to report party assets and party subsidies). KMT gangsters and family conglomerate representatives still run free in the Legislative Yuan, working on the cover of attacks on CSB. The main negotiator with China’s son holds vast business interests in China. Sigh…

]]> By: roentarre http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/2009/06/taiwan-needs-justice-not-persecution/comment-page-1/#comment-85003 roentarre Fri, 05 Jun 2009 23:09:42 +0000 http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/?p=4395#comment-85003 Hi David. This post really strikes me hard and you have expressed your view. I once voted Chen for Taipei mayor and treated him as a legend. The recent list of crimes regarding corruption and bribes are also something quite unpleasant to see. However, it is inevitable to do a degree of corruption in this taiwanese political climate. You are right about his trial and mistreatment. At the same time, public were only shown one side of stories. The whole thing is potentially biased to incriminate someone. You are brave to post this article in the current time Hi David. This post really strikes me hard and you have expressed your view.

I once voted Chen for Taipei mayor and treated him as a legend. The recent list of crimes regarding corruption and bribes are also something quite unpleasant to see. However, it is inevitable to do a degree of corruption in this taiwanese political climate.

You are right about his trial and mistreatment. At the same time, public were only shown one side of stories. The whole thing is potentially biased to incriminate someone.

You are brave to post this article in the current time

]]> By: David Reid http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/2009/06/taiwan-needs-justice-not-persecution/comment-page-1/#comment-85002 David Reid Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:20:58 +0000 http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/?p=4395#comment-85002 Maoman and Richard, thanks for your feedback. I was a bit uncertain how people would react to this post. There have been occasions where I have mentioned A-bian and got quite hostile responses. Tim, hopefully a few people will follow your links and add their names to the petition. While it might not set A-bian free at least it shows some people care. Fred, the media has been so successful in convincing most people of A-bian's guilt that they think there is no need for presumption of innocence. Analysis of media coverage of Chen's trial would make a good research paper. Suzanne, I think in the final two years of A-bian's second term he became quite unpopular. While he still maintained a strong base of support in the DPP, a lot of people in the DPP were also disappointed and even more so after the August 2008 admission that he wired campaign funds overseas. Sorry, I don't have any opinion polls at my fingertips that I can point to. Maoman and Richard, thanks for your feedback. I was a bit uncertain how people would react to this post. There have been occasions where I have mentioned A-bian and got quite hostile responses.

Tim, hopefully a few people will follow your links and add their names to the petition. While it might not set A-bian free at least it shows some people care.

Fred, the media has been so successful in convincing most people of A-bian’s guilt that they think there is no need for presumption of innocence. Analysis of media coverage of Chen’s trial would make a good research paper.

Suzanne, I think in the final two years of A-bian’s second term he became quite unpopular. While he still maintained a strong base of support in the DPP, a lot of people in the DPP were also disappointed and even more so after the August 2008 admission that he wired campaign funds overseas. Sorry, I don’t have any opinion polls at my fingertips that I can point to.

]]> By: Pepper, Suzanne http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/2009/06/taiwan-needs-justice-not-persecution/comment-page-1/#comment-85001 Pepper, Suzanne Fri, 05 Jun 2009 08:36:25 +0000 http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/?p=4395#comment-85001 Thanks for this post. But it would be nice if someone there could explain, seriously, to the rest of us why Chen is routinely dismissed as "unpopular." Why the KMT hates him is clear, but what about everyone else? From a distance, we can only guess. Are there polls that have asked what DPP supporters think of him? If so, where ... ?? Thanks for this post. But it would be nice if someone there could explain, seriously, to the rest of us why Chen is routinely dismissed as “unpopular.” Why the KMT hates him is clear, but what about everyone else? From a distance, we can only guess. Are there polls that have asked what DPP supporters think of him? If so, where … ??

]]> By: Fred http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/2009/06/taiwan-needs-justice-not-persecution/comment-page-1/#comment-85000 Fred Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:53:54 +0000 http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/?p=4395#comment-85000 Media and KMT quickly found guilty the former president Chen Shui-Bian. Where is the presumption of innocence ? Media and KMT quickly found guilty the former president Chen Shui-Bian.
Where is the presumption of innocence ?

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